No damsel in distress

Huma Qureshi (HQ): Earlier, it would just be roles like ‘damsel in distress’ or the hottie next to the hero. I think now there is a more evolved sense of looking at women characters. And it’s not that we should have only women-centric films but there are movies like Badlapur which have strong female roles. There was an effort to portray more real, more fleshed-out kind of characters in the film. So, I think because these films are also doing well commercially, people are now thinking of giving such movies a chance. I think it was long overdue if nothing else.

Radhika Apte (RA): Yes I agree, but I also think that changes in society are being reflected in the film industry. There was a time when this industry was considered a taboo for women. Similarly, women in society were meant for a particular reason and did jobs with less exposure. With society opening up, film industry too is opening up.

HQ: Absolutely. I mean today when there is a rape incident or something similar, people don’t try to hush the news down anymore. There is a very strong social voice that speaks out against these things and there are strong public opinions. If something like this happens, regular people are stepping out of their comfort zone and taking action. They are taking a stand on it. So, somewhere that has to impact our movies too because films which are considered to be a safe bet are no longer doing well. People are really looking for a change. Even rom-com kind of movies need to evolve at some point and at some level. I mean everyone loves a good rom-com but there can actually be another way of treating it.

KK: Yes, now I think women characters are being used to forward the plot. Like earlier, the case usually was that a woman was there simply for the dance and the romance but didn’t take the plot forward very much. I believe that concept is now being accommodated into the script writing. I think Queen did a lot to break this sort of idea that women can’t be the main hero or the protagonist of the film. Even now with Margarita With A Straw, when people meet me they ask me stuff like hero kaun hai film mein, and I say main hu and they accept that. Though we still have a long way to go but this is a good start.

RA: I think there was also a time when the moment you mention a woman-centric film people would cringe. They would think it is an NGO film or an art film. But now, it is a fact that you can make a woman-centric film with both commercial viability and entertainment.

KK: I think the idea is that our stories need to include women. You know it is great to have a Queen but it is also important that whatever stories we tell should have very real women characters and not just stereotypes.RA: I also think that we had these compartments where the good woman is feminine, beautiful and with good morals while the bad woman is manlier and someone with questionable character. I personally disagree with this whole concept.

HQ: Suddenly the modern Indian heroine has become too liberated. She has sex before marriage, is cool and confident and ready to take a stand. She is no longer coy and quiet.

RA: She is grey right in the middle. No black no white but shades of both.

KK: I don’t know. I have not been around in any other times. (Laughs)

KK: Yes, it is a good time. We are enjoying it and it is great.

HQ: I just want to say that every week I get more and more inspired. I see my contemporaries do some really cool work and feel they are pushing the envelope ahead with every film… like Queen, Hunterrr or Margarita With A Straw. And everyone is taking big risks. Earlier people would be wary of taking such leaps. Even men, for that matter. In the past, actors were very caught up with their image but now suddenly they feel the need to break out of it. I think people don’t care about images anymore. They are just putting themselves out there and doing experimental stuff. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t. It is just good that everyone is trying.

KK: I think there has been a big jump in society from our mothers’ generation as they didn’t have much to do but be at home which is kind of sad. So, their entire focus was their children. It is not negating what they did as it was wonderful of them but I think then there was no other option for a woman except to be the best she could be at home. Now there are more and more women out there who are educated and are working. It is actually a question about the society not quite being ready for it. 

I think it is such a jump especially if you think about it and this is where I want to bring you guys in. Men sort of are used to having the mother at home but the women they are marrying now have jobs. So, it is very difficult for them to accept this. I meet a lot of men in their thirties and forties who are used to having the mother at home who makes them paranthas and now they have a wife who is working and they are like are yaar who is going to make my paranthas. 

RA: And I think if you don’t change with time then you are just going to get stuck. Now people are realising that and taking more and more risks. You can’t stay stuck in the ’80s and ’90s kind of cinema any more.

HQ: Also we are watching all sorts of Hollywood films in our country which are doing well at our box-office and making crores. And today, as somebody who watches a lot of British and Hollywood television shows, I know our country has a young multiplex audience willing to go and watch edgy content. It has grown up loving our kind of cinema but now needs something more. And as an actor I don’t know how to manage as it gets repetitive after a time.

KK: For a long time Bollywood was not on their list because they made serious cinema and they would be like ‘we are not interested’ with so many songs, etc. So, for a while there was a tag on Bollywood cinema – it’s just a cabaret, bunch of songs and romance. But that has changed a huge way in the last five years with films like Gangs Of Wasseypur going to Cannes, The Lunchbox making so much money abroad and being a huge hit in France.

Many of my French friends ask me to get them those tiffins (dabbas). So it has become very popular over there. This is a sign of awareness abroad and we have to show them that there is other stuff also being made in India. Also this whole mass-based concept of making a box-office hit is in a very unpredictable space now because earlier, you knew if you have 10 songs and certain actors no matter what the script is the film will be a hit whereas today that’s not happening every time. So when you are investing Rs 60 crore you want that money back. Hence, no one wants to repeat mistakes.

I have a friend Hussain Dalal who was actually an actor but now his life is taken over by writing as he is making good money through it. He wrote Yeh Jawaani Hai Deewani, Happy Ending, 2 States and a few more. So suddenly writing has become very essential. Now he has bought a car and we are like wow you bought a car. Now there is value for content.

HQ: Given a gender you will not make as much as your male contemporaries are making. That goes with any profession and I don’t think film industry is any different.

KK: (Cuts in) And this is the same in Hollywood or any other cinema industry. There was Patricia Arquette who spoke about this at the Oscars this year and there was Emma Watson who spoke about it at the UN. It’s a worldwide problem of a woman not being paid as much for doing the same amount of work as a male. I think that is an essential component which needs to be changed in our society. If that doesn’t change then it is an issue.

HQ: Exactly! Because we are in a medium which influences the society so if things change here then they will also change in other fields.

KK: By the characters we play we will get better one day, man! If you’re earning less then you’re never going to be on the top whether you’re the head of an advertising company or a production house. Finance is patriarchal always then it will remain patriarchal. Advertising is a big example of this – to sell a car you have to place a pretty woman in front. Why can’t we have a naked man sell a car? I would love to buy that car.

KK: (Laughs) I think combination of luck and good looks.

RA: And I think patience also. We have given five auditions in a day. Every morning I used to be in Aaram Nagar and a place near Shreeji Restaurant, you know that dirty place where all these audition happens. 

And then they will react like nahi nahi tum nahi chahiye, humko 21 saal ki ladki chahiye. The selection is sometimes on the basis of height and colour.

HQ: Tum fit nahi ho, humein young ladki log chahiye.

KK: My friend was crying one day. She told me they told her ‘you look like a gaonwali, we want a modern girl’.

RA: But we all have been through that process. When you come to a new city, then you start meeting people and through your connections you make more connections and give as many auditions as you can. So been there, done that!

HQ: We have done all of this… carrying more than two dresses at a time, moving from one audition to another. Never had a backup like if something goes wrong call your dad and he will sort out everything. Even till date if something goes wrong I keep wondering who do I call, how do I solve it? But it’s like I am learning on my own and it’s fun. It also validates the artist in us.

KK: An actress in France starts her career at the age of 35. And a young actress is 35. So there are different concepts in different places.

RA: (Cuts in) No, that is also fine but what I am saying is then you learn a lot.

HQ: Here it’s also a lot of beauty and how one looks.

RA: Yeah!

KK: I was told I have five years left in my career and I should hurry up and do as much work as I can. So I was like okay only five years. And I need to find a backup career as well, that is what do I do after five years.

HQ: Meryl Streep is an example.

KK: Yes, that is just a concept in our industry that as a woman you have an expiry date whereas men are still working when in the eighties. So I think that needs to change.